Baynes Child Custody Protest

Voice Local News Saturday February 13^th 2010

Ministry Mistake

Baynes bring in big guns to testify

Continued from main page.

Along with the expert witnesses, was a contingent of protestors who set up outside court at the Clock Tower plaza. It's not their first protest on behalf of the Baynes now was it their second either. In fact, it's their ninth and they're in it for the long run.

The protestors were mostly from the Canadian Alliance for Social Justice and Family Values (CASJAFVA) group who's mandate is "the fostering and safe-guarding of social rights and justice, and the protection of traditional family values" as well as "preserving parental rights."

CASJAFVA director K-John Cheung, was outside court with the protestors. He was encouraged by the showing of support for the Baynes.

"We want them to know that we all here to support them and also it's very encouraging because the expert evidence has not been accepted by the court," said Cheung. "The court only listens to the actual observation and not opinion so this is a real good progress on the Baynes part."

"Our hope is very optimistic that they will get their children back and we hope the judge, you know, see what kind of evidence the ministry has -- nothing."

There have been reports that the children have been abused while in the care of foster homes however those claims have been unsubstantiated.

It has been over 2-years now, the children they are being injured, they are being neglected and it's really very damaging emotionally for the children and parents.

Cheung said that the judge wrote in a leaked letter to the ministry that there was no evidence of abuse on the part of the Baynes and the court will now support the continued detention of the two boys.

"As far as the girl is concerned," said Cheung, "Dr. Coburn is the major witness for the ministry with respect to the girl, but the evidence of Dr. Coburn as an expert is not going to be accepted."

Chilliwack homemaker and mother of three, Mary Ellen Kragh, was standing on the corner with a protest sign waving at passing traffic. She heard about the Baynes case when the children were removed from their home and has since attended birthday parties with the children.

Kragh, who was at the protest with her son Jonathon and sister in-law Rachael, feels that the ministry has got it all wrong and she was there to voice her opinion.

"I want to let people know that the Baynes are innocent, bottom line," she said. "They have been wrongfully accused"

Kragh was adamant. "I don't understand how it's gone so far and why the children are still not in their care and why the boys were taken, truthfully that shouldn't have happened. It was supposedly about the baby."

Lauren Tsang traveled to Chilliwack from Port Moody to be there also had a strong opinion about the Baynes case.

"They didn't have any evidence and they took away the kids," she said. "It's just a disaster and I really believe the government is abusing the Baynes family and it will end here."

Plunkett told the Voice that he was "there testifying at the request of the Baynes" however had nothing to say about the case prior to his testimony in court.

Chilliwack realtor Rosie Binstead has known the Baynes for a number of years, sold their family home in Hope when the children were snatched.

"My heart aches for them," said a misty-eyed Bindsted. "It does because Paul and Zabeth have lost everything to prove their innocence and the ministry gets to bring in people from the states, they brought in another doctor from the states and we as BC residents are paying for that."

Surrey resident Joy Forfey, has been a friend of the family for 20-plus-years, was very concerned and summated the entire situation in one line. "Well I think maybe originally they had a case but they know now that they the baby has a disease and it mimics shaken baby so they should be releasing all the children back to their parents."

Ex-Social Worker Ray Ferris, was another Baynes big gun at court Monday. Ferris is a harsh critic of the children's ministry and wrote a book called "The Art of Child Protection".

"It's atrocious," he told the Voice while rushing to the courtroom.

For more information visit www.canadianalliance.org

POSTSCRIPT: An E-mail to the Voice from Ray Ferris after the story was published.

One of your reporters was standing outside the Chilliwack court house a few days ago and gave me his card. I did not have time to talk to him, but I offer you the attached information, which is germane to his concerns. In addition to what is attached a couple of other issues have arisen. A social worker admitted to having obtained a document illegally and having deleted all his emails dealing with the source of the document. Judge Crabtree has ordered him to retrieve them. Another important item is that the medical opinion evidence may be ruled inadmissible. The judge has already banned the doctors from assuming any cause for any of the injuries. (The principle hear is that a doctor is not able to determine whether an injury is deliberate or accidental from medical evidence only.) The likelihood of deliberate injury is determined from a combination of medical evidence and profile. Profiles with a history of negligence and frequent injury, lack of lifeskills etc. The Baynes present an excellent profile. With the medical evidence being so shaky, the ministry appears to be trying to re-invent the family profile by bringing on various character assassination witness who offer only smear and innuendo. They hide behind anonymous "collateral informants", which of course is pure hearsay. Unfortunately, section 14 of the CF&CSA requires people to report if they have reason to believe a child is at risk, but nowhere is anonymity guaranteed. It is just that the ministry always try to operate in secrecy. They have a lot to hide.

Chilliwack residents Johnathon Kragh, Rachael Kragh and Mary Ellen Kragh (R) at the courthouse Monday.

Voice Interview Notes

Mary Ellen Kragh, Chilliwack homemaker

Voice: When did you first hear about this?

M Kargh: 2½-years ago when the kids were removed.

Voice: Did you make it to the last protest?

M Kargh: I've been to Vancouver a couple of times and I've also had child visits to birthday parties with the (Baynes) children.

Voice: So you know the kids?

M Kargh: Yes I do and I know the parents.

Voice: What do you want to accomplish today?

M Kargh: I want to let people know that the Baynes are innocent. Bottom line.

Voice: Do you really feel that?

M Kargh: I know that. Yes I do, I know that they are innocent. They have been wrongfully accused.

(Cars drive by honking)

M Kargh: Wooo!

Voice: Will they make a decision on the kids today?

M Kargh: That'd be great if they did but I don't believe that would happen. We're here 2½-years and we're still here.

Voice: I guess the Baynes are getting a little antsy to get this over with?

M Kargh: Actually, they blow me away with their calm, their tenacity ... I can't say that I'd be that calm. Just the accusations. I don't understand how it's gone so far and why the children are still not in their care and why the boys were taken, truthfully that shouldn't have happened. It was supposedly about the baby.

Voice: Are you a mother?

M Kargh: I'm a mother, this is my youngest.

(points to her son also holding a protest sign)

Voice: How many kids?

M Kargh: I have three children.

Voice: What do you do for a living here in Chilliwack?

M Kargh: I have raised my children, I'm a full time mom ...

Voice: A stay-at-home-stand-on-the-street-with-a-protest-sign-mom?

M Kargh: You betcha. Stand up for what is right that's what I do.

Voice: Thank you very much.

Rachael Kragh, sister-in-law, Chilliwack homemaker

Voice: What do you expect to accomplish today?

R Kragh: I was hoping that there's more public awareness of what's going on. It's been too long with the Baynes and with the lack of rights that the average person has. With the Minisrty not responsible to anybody.

Voice: How did you come to know the Baynes?

R Kragh: I actually went to school with Zabeth in Surrey. I haven't talked to her in years actually. I've been out of province and just came back into the province.

Voice: So this is going to be a surprise for her to see you out here?

R Kragh: Yeah.

Voice: Thank you.

Son Johnathon Kragh

Voice: Why are you here today?

J Kragh: I'm here to support the Baynes.

Voice: Do you go to school in Chilliwack?

J Kragh: Yes, Sardis Senior

Voice: What grade are you in?

J Kragh: Grade ten.

Voice: Do you think you're going to be doing some good out here today?

J Kragh: I think so yes.

Voice: Thank you.

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Lauren Tsang, Port Moody

Voice: Why are you here today?

Tsang: I want to support the Baynes family. I believe they are innocent and I am here to support them.

Voice: How long have you known of the Baynes case?

Tsang: For more than 1-year. So the last time they were in the court I came and when they went to the ministry office I also went to show my support.

Voice: Where are you from?

Tsang: I live in Port Moody.

Voice: So you came out from Port Moody today?

Tsang: Yes, exactly.

Voice: Do you expect any results from the court today?

Tsang: So far it's quite positive. What I heard but I really don't know. It's hard to say. But I knew they have an expert to come today and that's why we are here, we want to say thank-you to the expert because his opinion is the okay.

Voice: You're with the Justice Society?

Tsang: No actually we're with the Canadian Alliance for Family Values and Social Justice.

Voice: Do you really believe the "government abuses are destroying the Baynes family"? (Reference to sign Tsang is carrying)

Tsang: Of course. They didn't have any evidence and they took away the kids. The kids are very important, right? Because I have two kids too, right? I know what it's like (to be a mother). It's just a disaster. How can you take away my kids? Parents have rights with our kids, right? As a parent I'm sure I love them, my kids. But for the kids we can't be sure. So I really believe the government is abusing the Baynes family. What they are doing doesn't make any sense to me and it will end here.

Voice: Thank you for the comment.

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Paul and Zabeth Baynes outside courtroom

Voice: How are things going today? Are you just on a break from court?

P Baynes: We're on the morning break. We just had a doctor qualified as an expert witness and we went through his cv (curriculum vitae), his credentials and his experience and things like that, so I guess after the break we'll be going on and testifying as to the conditions that Stephany has in diagnosing that further.

Z Baynes: We brought in a couple of pediatricians in the last couple of days andthey deal in treatments of the injuries, but Dr. Plunkett actually has experience in the cause of injuries.

P Baynes: The mechanisms behind the cause.

Z Baynes: So he should be invaluable today.

Voice: Do you expect any results today?

Z Baynes: No. No we don't. This is a long trial and I know the ministry has a number of social workers that will be coming and other witnesses.

Voice: What exactly is happening? Is someone on trial today or a case to hear your children case?

Z Baynes: It's a hearing that's going to determine, the courts will have to determine the cause of injury and the weight they're going to place on each of the experts that come.

Voice: Okay, so charges could come out of this yet for child abuse or child endangerment or something like that?

Z Baynes: It's up to the courts to decide that depending on what they feel about the experts. Dr. Plunkett today is actually qualified to bring and present the other ten reports that we have because he works with Family Planning and also works with individuals prior to this case but the ultimate of this is going to be a question of was this a case of was Stephany abused or was it the brother falling on her and are my children going to be returned to us is what we're waiting to hear at the end of it.

Voice: It there a tentative date when you might find out?

Z Baynes: This week is a full week of trial, next week is one-week off and the following week should determine at the end of that the results.

Voice: So how are you guys making out in Surrey?

P Baynes: We're actually staying at hotel here locally.

Voice: How's things going otherwise? You guys were working as janitors or something before.

P Baynes: We actually have our, Beth's parents actually, have taken over our job with another friend to help them. So they've taken that off our plate so we can focus solely on this trial.

Voice: Are you back at your piano yet? (to Zabeth)

Z Baynes: I'm preparing for another concert.

Voice: Are you? When is this concert?

Z Baynes: Well they are starting to orgainze it right away, it could be the following month. They haven't set a date yet. But we have to definitely stay with that because the weight of the financial costs here is extreme.

Voice: Is there anything else you want to add today to this?

Z Baynes: The whole ordeal has been a complete strain on our children as well. The loss of all the time we have with our children has been a pain that we wouldn't want anyone else to experience and that we do hope at the end of the day that our children will be restored and maybe the results of the hearing with Dr. Plunkett coming in may help others in the future.

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Dr. Plunkett said he was there testifying at the request of the Baynes but had nothing to say about the case prior to his testimony in court.

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Ray Ferris who wrote a book called "The Art of Child Protection" was rushing to meet people involved in the case.

Ferris: It's atrocious.

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Joy Forfey and Lila Parker, Surrey residents

Voice: Can you tell me why you're here today?

Forfey: I'm here to support the Baynes family to get thier children back.

Voice: How long have you known the Baynes family or known about the case?

Forfey: I've known about the case for a couple of years and I've known Zabeth who's the mother for about 20-years and her parents.

Voice: Where are you from?

Forfey: Surrey.

Voice: Do you think the ministry's seizing of the children is unjustified?

Forfey: Well I think maybe originally they had a case but they know now that they the baby has a disease and it mimics shaken baby so they should be releasing all the children back to their parents.

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Rosie Binsted, Chilliwack resident, Chilliwack Realtor, 1% Realty

Binstead: I've known Paul since about 1995 and after 1999 sort of lost contact with him and then reconnected again in about 2008 because I'm now a realtor and they called me up to list their place in Hope and we met Zabeth at that time as well.

I can't believe this is happening here in Canada, really I just don't think that we're not a third world country, you would think that would be happening there, here to me, they've (Baynes) have never been charged with anything and to me I would think that you're innocent until proven guilty and this isn't happening here.

For them to hold their children, I just don't understand it.

Voice: Are you a mother yourself?

Binstead: Yes, I have three boys.

Voice: Your sign says "Children Need Mom and Dad" and you believe that wholeheartedly?

Binstead: I do. I certainly do. My goodness, I don't think anybody else can bring up your children the way a mother and father can bring up your children. There are some people, yes that shouldn't be parents, but you know what? Once a mother, you're always a mother.

"My heart aches for them," said misty-eyed Bindsted. "It does because they've lost everything, they've lost everything. The ministry gets to bring in people from the states, they brought in another doctor from the states and we as BC residents are paying for that. Paul and Zabeth have lost everything to prove their innocense.

I want to do a fundrasier for them and I don't know what to do other than at our church we got a whole bunch of bottles but that's not enough. I'd like to do a fundraiser so if anybody wants to help me do a fundraiser I'll give you my phone number after this and I'd love to do something for them.

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K-John

Voice: Why are you here today?

K-John: We are here today as you know we started to support the Baynes in January last year. So we have worked over 1-year now and this is the 9th protest and today we are here to want to show the things that they are in the court in the trial and today the Baynes met with expert Dr. Plunkett giving evidence and so we are here to give him, Dr, Plunkett the support, as well as the Baynes support.

We want them to know that we all here to support them and also it's very encouraging because the expert evidence has not been accepted by the court. The court only listens to the actual observation and not opinion. So this is a real good progress on the Baynes part. Also the other witnesses as far as I know, produced by the ministry that their ministry is really in disarray.

Voice: Do you expect any results today?

K-John: Not today. It will go on for another few days until the latter part of February.

Our hope is very optimistic that they will get their children back and we hope the judge, you know, see what kind of evidence the ministry has -- nothing.

Voice: They could decide that today couldn't they?

K-John: No I don't think so. I think that after the judge can see the evidence in court, the judge I'm sure will consider the evidence eventually maybe sometime the latter part of this month we hope to get judgement and not any more delays.

It has been over 2-years now, the children they are being injured, they are being neglected and it's really very damaging emotionally for the children and parents.

Voice: Has the abuse in foster homes been proven yet?

K-John: No, no. I don't think so. You are talking about the abuse in the foster homes?

Voice: The foster homes.

K-John: Oh the foster homes, I don't think that part of the evidence has not been produced.

Voice: So with the result of this trial, will it lead to charges of child abuse if they find that the Baynes were negligent?

K-John: My own opinion, I don't think so. Even if the court find any fault on the part of the Baynes but I don't think there is any evidence to support that.

The judge in his letter to the ministry said there is no evidence, that the court will not support the continued detention of the two boys.

Now that document leaked out to the Baynes.

Voice: Somebody leaked it to the Baynes?

K-John: Even their lawyer says 'No case for the two boys'. As far as the girl is concerned, Dr. Coburn is the major witness for the ministry with respect to the girl, but the evidence of Dr. Coburn as an expert is not going to be accepted.

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Protestor #1

A voice recording problem omitted the lady's name who came from Surrey.

Voice: Tell me why you're here today.

P1: I'm here in support of Paul and Zabeth Baynes and their situation and I'm here to protest how they've been treated and I want people to know that an injustice has been done and they need to have their children back.

(she was holding a sign that said "Protecting Parental Rights")

Voice: So you're all for protecting parental rights?

P1: Oh absolutely.

Voice: How long have you know Zabeth and Paul?

P1: About 2-years.

Voice: Was that when you first heard of the case?

P1: Yes. Yes, friends of friends of theirs.

Voice: So you came all the way from Surrey for this?

P1: Yes.

Voice: Thank you.